Los Hornos que no pudieron borrar la huella

[Eckart]

Yo visité Auschwitz y el sentimiento que se apodera de uno le da la propiedad para defender a capa y espada la teoría de la realidad del exterminio en masa, como digo yo "higiene genética" por parte de los nazis para una absurda raza superior.

Shindler, creo que nadie aquí ha negado la realidad del exterminio en masa.

Un saludo.

[Shindler]

Ni yo tampoco pero me pareció que decir que principalmente los hornos fueron construidos por una cuestión de higiene es algo errado, pero que inicialmente lo hayan hecho con tales fines es otro tema.


Gracias por estar

[Eckart]

Hola, Shindler. Si se está hablando estrictamente del motivo de contrucción (en el momento de su construcción, ni antes ni depués) y si este motivo fue realmente higiénico, no es absurdo entonces afirmar que fuera tal cosa.

Un saludo.

[Shindler]

Hola, Shindler. Si se está hablando estrictamente del motivo de contrucción (en el momento de su construcción, ni antes ni depués) y si este motivo fue realmente higiénico, no es absurdo entonces afirmar que fuera tal cosa.

Un saludo.

Si nos fijamos en el punto 43 que Nizkor nos plantea ante el IHR . ¿Por qué los campos de concentración tenían hornos crematorios? La respuesta es "Para eliminar higienicamente a las víctimas del tifus" , ¿tantos murieron por el tifus sólamente para la demanda de fogoneros y turnos que se implantó? Yo creo que desde que se fabricaron los campos de concentración (y antes también) ya se estaban viendo alternativas para el exterminio de las pruebas y del delito. (es mi opinion) No olvidemos que ya se sabía de antemano quienes ocuparian los campos y su destino final era solamente uno admisible, la muerte por eso mi opinion (y reitero por enésima vez mía) es que se trata de una "higiene genética".




Gracias por estar

[Eckart]

Yo creo que desde que se fabricaron los campos de concentración (y antes también) ya se estaban viendo alternativas para el exterminio de las pruebas y del delito. (es mi opinion) No olvidemos que ya se sabía de antemano quienes ocuparian los campos y su destino final era solamente uno admisible, la muerte por eso mi opinion (y reitero por enésima vez mía) es que se trata de una "higiene genética".

Piensa que los campos eran, al principio, de concentración; el exterminio masivo (y los campos de exterminio) llegó después.

Saludos.

[José Luis]

¡Hola a todos!

Creo que ha habido cierta ofuscación terminológica por parte de nuestro compañero Shindler. Una relectura sosegada del primer mensaje del compañero Roy debería bastar para recuperar la lucidez, que siempre es necesaria, de la mano de la tranquilidad, para tratar estos temas tan sensibles.

Van Pelt es un autor reputado. Sus credenciales, al hilo de su informe para el juicio Irving versus Lipstadt&Penguin Book:

http://www.hdot.org/trial/defense/van/INT.1b

Y un resumen (en ese informe) de la materia que se ha estado debatiendo:

http://www.hdot.org/trial/defense/van/i

En especial:

8. A selection and extermination site for Jews (1941/2-1944).
When large-scale mass murder of Jews began in the summer and fall of 1941 in the wake of Operation Barbarossa, the SS in Auschwitz was still fully committed to Himmler's project to develop the town and the region. It was when Göring directed Soviet prisoners of war from Auschwitz to German armament factories in January 1942 that Himmler began to consider the systematic use of the slowly emerging program for the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem within the context of what he called "The Auschwitz Project." In early 1942 Himmler was still very much committed to make Auschwitz the centerpiece of his racial utopia. Only now this was not to be created on the backs of Soviet prisoners-of-war: Jewish slave labourers were to take their place. The Wannsee Conference gave Himmler (through Heydrich) the power he needed to negotiate with German and foreign civilian authorities for the transfer of Jews to his SS empire. The first transports of Jews fit for labour started to leave Slovakia for Auschwitz-Birkenau soon thereafter. When the Slovak government suggested that Himmler also take Jews unfit for labour in exchange for cash payments, Himmler decided to transform a peasant cottage in Birkenau into a gas chamber. Two months later, on July 4,1942, the first transports of Jews from Slovakia were submitted to selection. Those who could work were admitted to the camp Those who could not were killed in the peasant cottage, now known as Bunker I. At that time, selected categories of Jews were killed at Auschwitz, but the camp still had not become the epicentre of the Holocaust. The main purpose of Auschwitz, at this time, remained construction (of a plant, a city, and a region), and not destruction (of Jews). The systematic extermination of Jews was still an auxiliary function of the camp. Around mid July 1942, Himmler increased his authority as Reich Commissioner for the Consolidation of the German Nation, and acquired the responsibility for German settlement in Russia--an authority that he had coveted for more than a year. His view of Auschwitz and his plans for Auschwitz changed rapidly and dramatically. The "Auschwitz Project," was no longer of interest to him--at least not for the duration of the war. The camp could be used to serve the systematic killing of Jews. In Auschwitz the by then well-established practice of mass-killing became policy. The camp architects got the order to design crematoria (4 and 5) equipped from the outset with homicidal gas chambers on 20 August, 1942.41 The two crematoria under development (2 and 3), were retro-actively fitted with homicidal gas chambers.42

Saludos cordiales
José Luis

[José Luis]

En cuanto al tema específico del tifus y la higiene, el asunto está razonablemente explicado en Deborah Dwork, Robert Jan Van Pelt, Auschwitz (New York: W.W. Norton & Company, Inc., 2002), en las páginas 218 y 219, de las que copio literalmente:

[Using Kammler’s type sheets, the architects in Auschwitz turned their attention first to the prisoners’ reception and delousing building. Their goal was to prevent the spread of contagious diseases, which were rife in Auschwitz. The camp was overcrowded, the hygienic conditions were poor, and the inmates were ill fed, ill clothed, and ill shod. Dysentery, typhoid fever, and typhus felled the inmates and threatened the Germans. Typhus, transmitted by lice and carried by human beings and rats, was the most fatal of the three and therefore the most feared. The Germans had experience in this area from the First World War when they developed delousing units to control the disease on the eastern front, where it was endemic. The soldiers were bathed and their clothes fumigated in mobile units, thus destroying the lice. But the vermin were ubiquitous: buildings, mattresses, sofas, and chairs became infected. The Technical Committee for Pest Control of the German War Ministry founded the firm Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung (German Company for Pest Control), or Degesch, in 1917 to deal with the problem. One of its most powerful and popular disinfestation products was the extremely toxic hydrocyanic, or prussic, acid. Sold in a crystal form and packed in sealed tins, it carried the trade name Zyklon (cyclone). As the German word for prussic acid is Blausäure, for the deep blue stains in produces, the poison was also known as Zyklon-Blausäure, or Zyklon B. It was commonly used to fumigate lice-infested buildings, which were sealed during the operation and could be entered safely only after having been aired for twenty hours. Even then, as a company manual warned, “mattresses, straw mattresses, pillows, upholstered furniture and similar items must be shaken or beaten for at least one hour in the open air.”

Zyklon B had been introduced in Auschwitz in July 1940, when it was used to fumigate the Polish barracks which, according to Höss, “teemed with lice, fleas, and other bugs.” Later that year Schlachter created primitive gas chambers in block 26, and some months thereafter in block 3, to fumigate the prisoners’ clothing; existing rooms were sealed and powerful fans installed.]

Si tienes algún problema con la traducción, estimado Shindler, avisa.

Saludos a todos
José Luis

[Shindler]

Me llevo el diccionario y copia de tus aportes a la playa
Bueno no seais duros conmigo (dije seais? ) talvez mi cerrada mente no digiera el hecho de que el exterminio fue concebido y evolucionando hasta alcanzar la abrerración que todos conocemos, ¿entonces no se quisieron borrar las huellas de la aberración con ellos?



Gracias por estar
P.D.Lo del diccionario es enserio.

[Audie Murphy]

Seis décadas después, F-15's Ra'am de la Heyl Ha'Avir israelí sobrevuelan Auschwitz en homenaje
La canción que se escucha, "Eli, Eli" (Mi Dios, Mi Dios) fue compuesta en base a los poemas de Hannah Senesh, una chica judía húngara de la Haganah (Ejercito Judío en Palestina), enrolada voluntaria en el British Special Operations Executive (SOE).
Arrestada por la gestapo tras saltar en paracaídas sobre Yugoslavia con la intención de coordinar a los judíos húngaros de la resistencia, y torturada salvajemente, jamás reveló los detalles de la misión... Terminó sus días en Auschwitz!

fuente http://www.filmibeat.com/img/136x170/po ... h-1080.jpg

En el 2008 se realizó un documental de 85 minutos sobre Hannah Senesh con el titulo de Blessed Is the Match: The Life and Death of Hannah Senesh

Tráiler en https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GzHz4y3fGE

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814031/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://motionempire.com/Watch_Blessed_I ... 04395.html